A doctor accused of groping his colleagues has told a jury that he gave "friendly shoulder massages" and made "cheeky" remarks but said: "It was just banter."
Brian Kubwalo is currently on trial at Liverpool Crown Court charged with three counts of sexual assault. He is accused of inappropriately touching three fellow members of staff at Arrowe Park Hospital between 2019 and 2021.
Gordon Cole KC told jurors during the prosecution's opening last week that the 56-year-old had been employed in the gynaecology and obstetrics department at the Wirral hospital, with each of the complainants having "worked with and in close proximity to Dr Kubwalo when they were touched". He was said to have touched one alleged victim's vagin* over her clothing in a scan room.
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Another was reportedly touched on the leg during a separate incident. Kubwalo - of Pabo Lane in Llandudno Junction, North Wales - later contacted her on Facebook after being informed of her complaint "to apologise for his banter".
In these messages, he said: "Hi, I'm sorry to have caused you distress. I was joking and just made some banter that went too far.
"I've always seen you as a good friend. Sorry."
Kubwalo is meanwhile accused of having touched the bottom of the third woman. This reportedly occurred "when they were walking from one part of the hospital to another, passing through some doors".
He began to give evidence to the jury from the witness box today, Thursday. His counsel Anesta Weekes KC asked him: "What sort of person are you at work?"
Kubwalo replied: "I'm a very open minded, friendly person. I get on with most people.I do not have enemies, I don’t have any issues. I have a laugh and I put people at ease to facilitate my work."
Ms Weekes continued: "Are you friendly with everybody?"
Kubwalo said: "In practice, not necessarily. There is not anyone I can say I'm unfriendly with. Some people may be more aloof and not want to engage. But I'm friendly with most people."
Kubwalo, who is originally from Malawi and began working at Arrowe Park Hospital in 2009, was asked about claims that he had massaged the shoulders of his colleagues. The married dad-of-two said of this: "Yes, it is true. It tends to be something people would ask. It’s usually just two or three people overall."
Kubwalo said that one of these people was the complainant whose genitalia he is alleged to have touched, with the massages having happened "once or twice" in a reception area. When asked whether he had "instigated" this, he responded: "It would be when we were chatting.
"Normally, she would have indicated that her shoulders were stressed or tense. That’s why I gave a friendly shoulder massage."
Kubwalo stated that another woman had requested a massage after approaching him and saying: "Brian. I've heard you give good massages."
Ms Weekes also questioned him on the topic of "gossip". Kubwalo said: "There is a saying in maternity, people call midwives mad wives.
"They sit down in between having had a stressful delivery and would talk about a lot of things. Gossip tends to be people who know each other outside of work.
"There is also a lot of banter that happens between them. They would discuss other colleagues or what’s going on."
Ms Weekes put to him: "Does it touch on anything personal or sexual?"
Kubwalo replied: "Yes. It can do."
The defence silk also asked him about an incident in which he is alleged to have touched a co-worker on the leg in a break room. Kubwalo said of this: "I found her sitting on the settee. She was sat on the settee covering herself with a covering, I remember it to be a theatre gown. I was sitting on a chair at a table."
Kubwalo described them as "having general chat" and added: "She looked like, at the time, she wanted to sleep. She was lying on the settee and covering herself.
"The first thing I said was, because I saw her try to cover herself, I said 'do you want me to tuck you in?'. As a caring gesture and a little bit tongue in cheek, that’s what I said to her."
Kubwalo told jurors that he was "just joking" and that she had "brushed him off". He continued: "She was getting up to go to the toilet.
"I said 'I'll give you a hand with that' or 'I'll help you with that'. It was just an off the cuff remark, just a cheeky thing to say.
"I didn't think she would take it seriously or that anything would happen. There was no sexual intent, it was just banter."
Kubwalo said that he was also going to the toilet and that he and the woman, who he described as a "good friend", "left together and walked together". Ms Weekes asked him: "She said you were following her quite deliberately, were you deliberately following her?"
He replied: "I was technically following her. I was behind her walking in the same direction, we walked together."
Ms Weekes said: "She told the police that she heard a noise, as if you were trying to get into her door. Did you do that?"
Kubwalo denied that this had happened. He said he then went upstairs onto the ward and did not see the complainant again during the rest of his shift.
Ms Weekes asked him whether he had "realised she was upset". Kubwalo said: "Not until I heard about it.
"Not that night, not in a day. Not at all, until I was told about it."
Kubwalo told the court that he was called into a meeting with a hospital director in which he was informed that the colleague had "complained of inappropriate behaviour towards her". He said of this: "I was confused.
"I wasn’t very sure. My interaction with her, I had not noticed or clocked anything inappropriate.
"I hadn’t thought it was anything serious. The fact that she reported it, I understood that she was more offended.
"I was shocked that it was something that had been escalated to that level. I hadn’t seen that comment to have been something you would report.
"She is a very robust, up front woman. If she didn’t like something I'd said, she would have said.
"She did complain, and I had to respect that she didn’t like it. I apologised to her.
"I was apologising for the fact I had said to her 'I'll help you with that' in a cheeky way. She had not liked that.
"I went too far. I understood that she had been upset by it."
Ms Weekes continued: "She also complained that you had come up to the settee that she was sitting on and you effectively sat over her legs. Did you do that?"
Kubwalo said: "No, no, no, no, no. I don't think it’s something I can do."
Ms Weekes put to him: "Have you ever sat on a colleague?"
Kubwalo responded: "No, no. I wouldn’t. It's just not an appropriate thing. I don't understand why I would do that."
Ms Weekes: "She told the police you said 'oh, you’ve shaved your legs'. Did you tell her that?"
Kubwalo: "No. No."
Ms Weekes: "Did you start to play around with the hem of her work clothes?"
Kubwalo: "No, no. If it was that night, I was sat at the desk."
Ms Weekes: "She also said you ran your fingers up and down her leg. Did you do that?"
Kubwalo: "No. No."
Ms Weekes: "Your case is, it's just not true. It didn't happen."
Kubwalo: "No. It didn't."
Ms Weekes: "Was there any falling out between you?"
Kubawlo: "I was not aware of any falling out. She’s never said anything. I wouldn’t even put it down to that particular incident. After I'd given the apology, she was fine."
Ms Weekes cited her client's comments under interview, when he told detectives that he was "shocked out of his skin". Kubwalo said: "I’m still shocked out of my skin now, to be in the position I'm in and trying to understand what it is that I've done that warrant the things that have been alleged against me - things I would never do.
"In normal circ*mstances, it was appropriate. I was talking to people in a level of friendliness.
"I know colleagues who say worse things than that, and people laugh it off. To have it be reported to the police, I'd never been arrested or questioned by the police in that regard.
"That put the whole issue in a completely different context. I still feel that today.
"My life will never be the same. It’s stressful, it's affecting my family.
"This is happening over something I've not done and something I would never have done. I still feel in that sense."
Kubwalo denies all three counts of sexual assault. The trial, before Judge Ian Harris, continues.
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